Uk horses go over sticks much quicker
A factor of Willie and Gordon having too many novice hurdlers. Half those bumper horses would go hurdling if in another stable
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Kilcruit was a reserve in a hurdle race the season he came second in the champion bumper
and what significance do you think that has?
Theyâd no real reason to keep him in bumpers that season. It was by chance he stayed in bumpers.
I just find it interesting.
The way horses careers can go in different directions always interests me.
If Samcro didnât fall in the grade one champion hurdle in punchestown heâd have been beaten and would have ran over fences the following year instead he lost a year running over hurdles.
If energumene didnât miss the arkle maybe heâd have beaten Shishkin and shishkin would have been campaigned as a gold cup horse last season and would have ran in a couple of king Georges. Now heâs 9 and his career is sort of fizzling out.
Envoi Allen avoided all the best novice chasers and then fell in Cheltenham. He was eight and we didnât really know his best trip or if he was much good.
Thereâs so many options now and so many seasons wasted in bumpers and p2ps we actually donât really find out how good a lot of horses are.
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you absolutely cannot send a horse over fences too soon. Youâll destroy them.
I donât really believe a horse coming from a p2p is benefitted by a season in bumpers.
Depends on the horse.
too soon is too soon. If a horse isnât fully developed and you send them over fences youâll destroy them. How soon is too soon is the variable. Some horses are backward until theyâre 7
it depends on what the horse is doing at home. If they arenât schooling well or arenât putting on condition then why not try to win a bumper with them⌠If the trainer thinks they wonât jump a fence eventually then itâs the best course of action.
black type is black type
Interesting to hear Willie say the ground was too quick for his horses on the opening day of the festival last year.
None of those Tuesday horses done much afterwards at the other festivals bar blue lord who fell in a grade one either.
You can be sure the days of Cheltenham opening on good ground are done.
I agree but some horses are ready and others not. Its not black and white.
I didnât say it was. 
This is my thing with the p2ps.
Everyone used to say the French horses had no longevity because they were sent over fences too young. Itâs now the exact same with p2p horses. A lot of them are heavily trained at 3 to be ready to win a 4yo maiden in the spring.
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follow the money. lads are destroying horses because of the money paid out for winning a maiden in a bog around fucking aghabullogue.
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This fuels the problem. Black type doesnât matter a fuck for a gelded NH horse really. Youâve egg and spoon races in Ireland that are as valuable as Graded races in England.
Theyâve introduced all sorts of Graded Mares races now that gives Breeders valuable black type but in all reality the races a pure shite and will just be farmed by a few horses who donât have to worry about running against proper horses now. Look how Shattered Love was campaigned vs Scarlet and Dove as an example.
And Graded bumpers are a pile of wank. They should restrict them to horses whoâve not run in a P2P and run a max of 2 other bumpers or something.
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it matters for the dam and sire bud, if a mare throws a black type winner itâs huge. It isnât all about what you see on the day
My point still stands. Theyâve watered it down so much that black type isnât really black type any more
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so what youâre saying is a mare who hasnât thrown black type will be covered as much as a mare thatâs thrown a grade 1 bumper winner? who do you think will get the best sireâs pal?
thatâs a terrible idea in all fairness. Basically closing up the grade 1âs even more for big yards who can afford to hold back a good one for a bumper.
Was Tony training Kilcruit at that time?
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