The Rugby Thread (Part 2)

[Tim_Riggins]

@glasagusban

I reckon they go where they get a good offer or an opportunity. I’d say Carbery is the only one that was prevailed upon to move. Was Conway a first choice Leinster player when he moved? Don’t think so. You seem to be claiming that players are being plucked from Leinster and deposited in munster. In reality the only the only player that’s ever moved that direction that was a first choice player was Carbery, and that was at Schmidt’s behest. The rest were all surplus to requirements or developed elsewhere before moving to Munster. Sure the likes of O’Brien’s and reddan and Ross went the other way and were mainstays at Leinster, and why not. I’m still not really sure what point you’re trying to make in all of this.

All of those Academy players were directed there. That’s how it has gone- same with Nick Timoney and others with Ulster.

O’Brien is from Carlow?

I’m talking about the Nucifora era.

[myboyblue]

@glasagusban

I’m still not really sure what point you’re trying to make in all of this.

We’re all thinking likewise about you.

[Diabhal]

@glasagusban

There were at best four decent players in that list.

You’re a gas man, I’ll give you that.

[glasagusban]

Directed how? Were Leinster offering them contracts? I highly doubt there’s any players Leinster wamted to keep and had a space for that were “forced” go elsewhere as you seen to be suggesting. Brainfart, I meant Cronin.

[Tim_Riggins]

@glasagusban

There were at best four decent players in that list. Murphy and McGrath sank like stones at Ulster, they’re not good examples of anything. I don’t think there’s any example other than Carbery of the irfu trying to “spread wealth”, it’s just driven by players going where they can get contracts or gametime. In fact, the irfu did the opposite of spreading the wealth by bringing henshaw to Leinster.

Probably 10 internationals in that list, all played in last 10 years.

In terms of some of the Academy ones. The likes of Loughman panned out, not everyone does. What Leinster have done very well in last decade is largely getting it right with the Academy. Though some were wrong (I’d say Timoney is a better player than Deegan, for example). No guarantee that will continue.

[myboyblue]

@Diabhal

@glasagusban

There were at best four decent players in that list.

You’re a gas man, I’ll give you that.

On this occasion, I’d say fool, but gas cunt works too

[glasagusban]

Conway, Loughman, Beirne, Carbery. Jones or Keatley at a stretch? There aren’t 10 good enough to change Munsters fortunes anyway.

[myboyblue]

@glasagusban

Conway, Loughman, Beirne, Carbery. Jones or Keatley at a stretch? There aren’t 10 good enough to change Munsters fortunes anyway.

Did you want them to send down Sexton, Keenan, Furlong and Ringrose?

[Tim_Riggins]

@glasagusban

Directed how? Were Leinster offering them contracts? I highly doubt there’s any players Leinster wamted to keep and had a space for that were “forced” go elsewhere as you seen to be suggesting. Brainfart, I meant Cronin.

Leinster would have signed Beirne.

I’m not saying “forced”- but they are nudged to go places. Of course Leinster were naturally be the preferred spot for someone from there but there are no guarantees. When Kelleher came through there were two excellent hookers in Leinster that came through together. Leinster had to pick- they got that pick right. Not guaranteed though with 18/19 year olds.

[glasagusban]

@Tim_Riggins

Probably 10 internationals in that list, all played in last 10 years.

Ah come off it now.

[glasagusban]

@Tim_Riggins

Leinster would have signed Beirne.

I’m sure Munster would have liked to have had Mike Ross by the time he became good too, what’s your point?

[Diabhal]

Andrew Conway
Jeremy Loughman
Tadgh Beirne
Conor Oliver
Robin Copeland
Felix Jones
James Downey
Joey Carbery
James Hart
Ian Keatley

All of those are/were at minimum top URC players. Just because they didn’t work out doesn’t negate the fact these were good URC - match winners at test level internationally.

You’re saying Jordi Murphy, who was crucial in Leinster winning their Champions Cup the year they beat Racing in the final, being sent North wasn’t a sign of spreading the wealth?

Lads like McGrath etc didn’t work out, fair enough, but Nucifora has consistently tried to bring the other 3 provinces up a level. It’s a complex thing to get fully right, with a lot of moving parts, but he can’t be fairly criticised for not sending good talent around the country.

[Tim_Riggins]

@glasagusban

I’m sure Munster would have liked to have had Mike Ross by the time he became good too, what’s your point?

Yeah possibly. I didn’t say it was all one way although there are few fresh examples in the last decade. Nagle the last real one. There isn’t a single example at Academy level.

[Diabhal]

Actually I’ll concede Hart on that list tbf. Good potential when he signed but didn’t deliver.

[Tim_Riggins]

McGrath was a Lion ffs! There’s no doubt on what Nucifora instituted. We are probably at 75 in the last decade between all the provinces between Academy and Senior pros.

[glasagusban]

I’d argue with you over many of those being top URC players. Decent for a period maybe.

I didn’t see anyone criticism Nucifore for not spreading talent. I’d criticise him for other stuff. Tim is overstating players being forced to move. They are not.

And no, Jordi Murphy is not a good example of that at all. A formerly good player whose form had dipped and career was petering out. Same as McGrath. Both moved to try get in a team again because they weren’t getting a look in at Leinster.

The players Tim is listing as having been forced to move were the same.

The only example of a player being prevailed upon to move, to my mind, is Carbery.

[glasagusban]

Was being the operative word. Very good player for a period but dipped off alarmingly and never recovered. An unusual example in terms of his form chart I’d say.

[Tim_Riggins]

At one point Healy had the same drop off. And came back.

[glasagusban]

What’s your point? McGrath wasn’t made move, he was on limited or no gametime at Leinster and saw better prospects at Ulster. Murphy the same. Conway the same.

[Tim_Riggins]

The players are absolutely directed.

There’s no space at Leinster- go elsewhere.

At underage level, rather than wasting time- they are directed right to other academies when there is no space.

Obviously it’s their choice ultimately, but that is what Nucifora brought in more and more.