That’s why I say people are not ready for it yet. But a welfare system where working is a choice people don’t make because they are better off on benefits is not sustainable
I would be a strong advocate of a universal benefit system where every adult gets say 10k a year (top of my head number) and are entitled to 5k a year per child to a max of 2. After that you are on your own and can work or not work but everybody gets the payment. If you had that you would make people work - if you have no skills you become a cleaner in a house, a gardener - people working will be able to employ those people as the cost of the service would drop. Loads of jobs that are done in other countries but are too expensive here.
Also if you work and pay social insurance if you lose your job you get 66% of your wages for 12 months and then it tapers away. Social insurance should be proper insurance so if you lose a job you can pay mortgage, bills etc and then get back on your feet but there is a time limit.
It won’t happen but you need to wean people off benefits as an alternative to working,
[quote=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 898143, member: 2272”]That’s why I say people are not ready for it yet. But a welfare system where working is a choice people don’t make because they are better off on benefits is not sustainable
I would be a strong advocate of a universal benefit system where every adult gets say 10k a year (top of my head number) and are entitled to 5k a year per child to a max of 2. After that you are on your own and can work or not work but everybody gets the payment. If you had that you would make people work - if you have no skills you become a cleaner in a house, a gardener - people working will be able to employ those people as the cost of the service would drop. Loads of jobs that are done in other countries but are too expensive here.
Also if you work and pay social insurance you get 66% of your wages for 12 months and then it tapers away. Social insurance should be proper insurance so if you lose a job you can pay mortgage, bills etc and then get back on your feet but there is a time limit.
It won’t happen but you need to wean people off benefits as an alternative to working,[/quote]
Maggie Thatcher will never be dead. Did it ever occur to you that lavish welfare payments are the price that taxpayers should pay for a reasonably peaceful society ?
It is not sustainable though and it also betrays people into inter generational poverty by keeping them sated. If you don’t have a role model with a work ethic you will always be poor. Compare that to emigrants to Australia, America etc from here, Asia who work two or three jobs because if they don’t they starve so their kids have a better life.
Social welfare system should be a safety net but not a hammock.
[quote=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 898152, member: 2272”]It is not sustainable though and it also betrays people into inter generational poverty by keeping them sated. If you don’t have a role model with a work ethic you will always be poor. Compare that to emigrants to Australia, America etc from here, Asia who work two or three jobs because if they don’t they starve so their kids have a better life.
Social welfare system should be a safety net but not a hammock.[/quote]
Providing education and opportunities are the main ways to address this. Your other ideas are pretty nuts.
Perhaps, but it does make an underclass who are unemployable. The Brits have a situation with 5 million on benefits which is approximately the same number of immigrants that came in to work. It can’t make sense for any society to have a structure like that.
Schools in these disadvantaged areas get way more resources than other schools in nice areas. What happens at home has as much a bearing on education as what happens in the classroom.
You can provide education. But people have to be able and want to take advantage of it. You can’t take opportunities if you are not equipped to take them. And a large part of that motivation should come from the home environment. If generations of a family can’t be arsed because the benefit system is there, what incentive do the kids have to change?
People won’t take the opportunities/education though because the benefits sate them/buy them off as there is no culture of working in that community. You get the odd outlier but they are rarer and rarer.
We have had free secondary education from the 70s and free third level since 90s. Middle/working class has benefited hugely. Compare a GAA programme from 1980s to today in terms of how many had third level qualification. That has not permeated into these parts of the country though and I blame benefits culture.
[quote=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 898161, member: 2272”]People won’t take the opportunities/education though because the benefits sate them/buy them off as there is no culture of working in that community. You get the odd outlier but they are rarer and rarer.
We have had free secondary education from the 70s and free third level since 90s. Middle/working class has benefited hugely. Compare a GAA programme from 1980s to today in terms of how many had third level qualification. That has not permeated into these parts of the country though and I blame benefits culture.[/quote]
Free third level education in Ireland my hole. Have you factored in any other barriers to people from disadvantaged communities getting to third level? Solely blaming “benefits culture” is a pretty narrow and frankly stupid view to take.
[quote=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 898152, member: 2272”]It is not sustainable though and it also betrays people into inter generational poverty by keeping them sated. If you don’t have a role model with a work ethic you will always be poor. Compare that to emigrants to Australia, America etc from here, Asia who work two or three jobs because if they don’t they starve so their kids have a better life.
Social welfare system should be a safety net but not a hammock.[/quote]
we pay lower in unemployment benefits than most successful European Economies & we pay less tax, the only thing that isnt substainable is a society where the government work for the rich and the elite & not for the poor, if you have a problem with the system as it is we should go to a more generous one. There is no correlation between high unemployment benefits & high unemployment, if anything its the reverse of that
Anyone watching the show on RTE following Irish students attending schools in Poland/Spain/Finland?-- their education systems and competancy levels of their kids in general seem light years ahead of us. From what I saw of it the Irish kids were riddled with insecurities and were more worried about how they were percieved by their peers, particularly in having to stand up and give a presentation etc… I suppose that’s half the problem, kids are not asked to give an opinion here and independent learning is not encouraged. First year university students cower when asked a question in tutorial settings here ffs! Something other countries have their kids working on from primary school.
