Apologies. I meant to say Sweden has done far better than many countries who’ve had lockdowns.
1 Like
Tegnell is coming out now saying the death rate in Sweden is horrific but throwing back saying they expected the care homes to do better.
Apologies, I meant to say that I wish to fundamentally change the context and parameters of the point I was trying to make. 
3 Likes
Yes. What I was trying to get across is that lockdowns don’t help, and that many countries who’ve implemented them are faring far worse than those that have.
There would have been less fatalities if they hadn’t implemented the lockdown, I think that’s the point he’s trying to make.
1 Like
How is the UK more of a clusterfuck than Belgium, Spain, Italy and France?
Deaths per million: Belgium 720, Spain 553, Italy 491, UK 443, France 391.
Literally all of western Europe with the exception of Germany is a clusterfuck.
UK are understating their figures. Belgium are likely overestimating theirs. UK are likely the worst in Europe.
So, once again, this is the major misunderstanding people like yourself are making. If you actually examine the evidence lockdowns of the type implemented in the west do fuck all. The only lockdown that could work is forcibly or by threat keeping everyone locked in their homes, as was done in Wuhan for two months.
It is obvious now that this virus started circulating in mid December, and due to it’s R0 had swept through populations by mid February. There was zero effort made to protect the vulnerable, so large numbers of the elderly got infected, including those in care homes. By the time lockdowns were implemented, the damage was already done and tens of thousands were dying.
Lockdowns don’t prevent infection. Of 1,000 recently hospitalized patients surveyed in New York, 660 were under lockdown and most of the rest from nursing homes or health care workers.
Sensible social distancing helps to reduce the spread of infection, this is the reason Sweden is no worse than Ireland in terms of deaths. The reason countries like Italy, Spain, the UK, etc. are so high is because they have large numbers of vulnerable people living in densely populated areas, and the disease was allowed spread through those areas for 3 months before any containment measures were put in place. New York and New Jersey are the best example of this.
If you examine the data without prejudice, there is a direct correlation between population density and number of deaths. Excluding Germany, literally every western country has fucked this up equally badly, the major fuck up being not seeing what this disease would doing to old people. We’re in May, five months into this, and efforts are only being made now to protect nursing homes.
2 Likes
How do you know Spain, Italy and France are not underestimating their figures or did?
How are Belgium overestimating deaths? Are they attributing deaths to Covid-19 that are due to other causes? Every country is doing this (except Germany?), if the deceased tested positive for Covid-19 or there was probably cause they had it, the death is counted as due to Covid -19.
Are you saying the UK are not understating their figures?
No, where did I say that?
I’m saying western countries have all made an equal fuck of this, I would have thought that was obvious from the number of deaths. If you factor in population density, there is statistically no difference between major western European countries (with the exception of Germany).
I’m not the one pretending to be an expert. There are quite a few on TFK who shout “Sweden” thinking this makes their opinion somehow factual. Ye know fuck all, no one does.
Dumb rating. There is plenty that is known.
Well you claimed Belgium have a worse figure than the UK but didn’t seem to realise you were using another apple v orange comparison.
How are Belgium overestimating their deaths? You are the one making this claim, you need to back it up with at least some evidence.
No I don’t. You’re the one making arguments based on incorrect comparisons.
Read up a few posts. You said Belgium are likely overestimating their deaths. How are they overestimating deaths? Counting people who are still alive?
My point on deaths is that in countries with similar population densities and urban centers, death rates are statistically very similar. If you can’t see that for yourself looking at the death rates in the UK, Spain, Italy, France and the eastern seaboard of the US I can’t help you further.
3 Likes
You know Trump used Belgium to defend his own country’s figures too. I wouldn’t expect him to do any research on his figures but I expected a bit more from you seeing as you’re so well informed.
Hardly a surprise that a contagious virus would do more damage in urban areas. Maybe that’s why they all implemented lockdowns, to slow the spread.
Where are you taking the figures from as a matter of interest? Is it worldometer?
Trump actually used Sweden as the example of what not to do (he was wrong). The only one on here who approaches Trump levels of stupidity is yourself. As always you have to try and make any discussion political. The virus doesn’t care about politics, it is impacting countries the same whatever flavor of government they have.
Leftists like yourself point to the US and the UK, and conveniently ignore Italy, Spain and France. What is it about “they all fucked up” so hard to comprehend?
How are Belgium overstating their deaths?