Wexford V Kilkenny Leinster S.H.C Semi Final, 7pm Saturday 10th June, Innovate Wexford Park

that is a truly horrific article.

[quote] Wexford were thoroughly deserving winners against Kilkenny. Twenty-one scores to 14 scores is an eloquent ratio, writes PM O’Sullivan.

Welcome to the Wexford ash cloud.

Wonderful view, even if nobody can see a foot in front of their face. Whose hurlers will now win the All-Ireland? Who cares, since probably not Tipperary and definitely not Kilkenny.

Or so it seems, peering through June’s murk. Never has a dirty vista looked more appealing.

Welcome to a brave new world. Wexford’s superb victory last weekend blew the whole shooting gallery up in the air, not just for this season but probably for a few more, too. The result, a three-point win that could have been more emphatic, proves a team other than Tipperary can take down Kilkenny. Planet Hurling held avid for this intelligence for an achingly long time.

Not a sinner could begrudge Wexford their purple hour. There came understandable emotion, as when centre-back and captain Matthew O’Hanlon remarked: “The last 10-15 years, we’ve got some serious trimmings from them, so, we knew that we owed them and we still do.”

Fair dues. Wexford were thoroughly deserving winners. Twenty-one scores to 14 scores is an eloquent ratio.

There is a sense, though, in which analysis of this Leinster semi-final lacked nuance. For most commentators, the story worked out simply. Kilkenny were clueless, lacking any plan, while Wexford sucked tactical diesel.

This assessment, like most black-and-white scenarios, is partial. Although disappointing all over the field, Kilkenny did arrive with a reasonable plan, one that thrived in the first half, save for nine wides (seven of which should have been slotted).

Corner-forwards Ger Aylward and Colin Fennelly stayed in a menacingly high line, with full-forward Richie Hogan drifting out the field. This ploy prised space to be exploited by Aylward, save for his four wides, and Fennelly.

Kilkenny likewise pushed up seven on seven on their own puckout, with Lester Ryan typically marking Shaun Murphy, Wexford’s sweeper. This gambit paid a decent dividend in the first half, but went all but unnoticed in post-match reaction. Still, other managers will clock the possibilities involved.

On the evening, the doubt-planting opportunities offered by Aylward’s miscues, Pádraig Walsh’s three wides and TJ Reid’s two pulled frees were squandered. Another evening, Kilkenny could have made half-time 1-12 to 0-12 ahead, resuming with a strong wind at their back. People would then have been chattering about the madness of a seventh defender when advantaged by a near gale.

Now, do not take me wrong. Too often in the second half, Eoin Murphy bashed down the middle with his puckouts, condensing play in a manner that always suits the leading team. Emblematically, the puckout after David Redmond’s 39th-minute goal got devoured by Murphy, sweeping behind a massed defence.

Yes, Wexford much deserved to win, but the task of assessing hurling surely runs beyond totting the final score. Shades of grey are the most colourful aspects of an aftermath.

There are always humorous angles. The most surprising of candidates opted in on the Kilkenny obituary act. A Monday morning column by Brendan Cummins noted: “If there’s a weakness in Cody, this is it, setting up his team. In fact, it’s a blind spot.”

There is nice irony in this man being the bearer of bad glee. Following 2011’s senior final, there was consensus that his puckouts, headless and heedless, were a significant factor in Tipperary not retaining their title.

The same Monday, Ger Loughnane claimed: “The Kilkenny of 2017 is not the Kilkenny of 2007.” Fair enough, after a banal fashion. None of us alive in 2007 is exactly the same at present. Volcanoes explode, hair greys and hurlers retire.

Funnily enough, Ollie Canning was asked last year about the 2007 season. He replied: “When Ger Loughnane was over Galway, a 10-point loss to Kilkenny was about the height of it.”

Loughnane remained manager when Galway lost to a 14-man Cork by two points in 2008. The main reason given by that panel when later seeking his removal? That they did not know exactly how they were lining out against Cork until Loughnane finally told them in the pre-match huddle.

Yes, some people’s memory is shocking short. Those candidates would win every sort of medal in the Goldfish Olympics. One victory for Wexford, however stirring and admirable, cannot airbrush history.

Anyhow, I have to laugh when I hear stuff about sweepers and tactics as a panacea for every hurling ailment. What happened Cork against Tipperary in 2016, with William Egan deployed as a sweeper? Nine points of a loss that could have been 19.

Cork against Tipperary in 2017, without a sweeper? Four-point win.

Dear readers, shall I reveal what passes as a secret? Here goes. There is a perspective out there in which Kilkenny are Dingos hurling, while the other stuff, beginning with Cork of the mid-2000s, is Prada hurling.

The problem is that the other stuff, beginning with Cork of the mid-2000s, nearly always lost. Still and all, you have this take where hurling’s proper path was a Cork six-in-a-row between 2004 and 2009. Then, other Munster counties, coached or managed by someone from that Cork set up, would have assumed the winning mantle.

The current sweeper fixation is a mutation of this perspective, with people back tugging at that Prada label, since last weekend, same as some hurlers tug at their county crest. Each to their own, in the phrase. You can never have too much hurling, too much talk about hurling.

Mind you, David Bowie is not judged on his last album, Blackstar (2016), whatever its considerable merits. Bowie is judged on the albums he produced, while at his peak, in the 1970s, not on the offering of the 1980s and ’90s.

Twenty-first century Kilkenny hurling will be judged on 2000 to 2015. To wit: Two senior titles in a row when successive titles got glossed as a unicorn ambition, four in a row, four in five seasons, 11 in 16 seasons.

Records, Munster records, fell by the new time. There are plenty individuals, however elegantly clad, still in shock.

Those Kilkenny achievements will endure, like Ziggy Stardust, as a touchstone of possibility long after the current ash plume settles.

There is a perspective out there in which Kilkenny are Dingos hurling, while the other stuff is Prada hurling [/quote]

what the fuck has what Cummins did in 2011 or Ger Loughnane did in 2007 got to do with comments made about Kilkenny in 2017? They were right, so fucking what if they themselves may have made tactical or managerial errors in the past. Play the ball, not the man you sour Kilkenny fuck. Getting all sulky because people are questioning the Kilkenny team and calling them “dingos hurling”. For fuck sake. What a load of utter gash. Here, lets count all Kilkennys wides in the first half and pretend like the other team had no missed chances. Lets count all their missed opportunities and say they could have won, but conveniently forgot about the other teams missed opportunities. Does every game involving Kilkenny and them losing now have to have the exclaimer “this was the greatest team ever playing the best hurling”* but they are shit now.

What a shit piece of writing. Getting all pissy because Kilkenny arent getting enough of credit for what they did years ago.

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might be fair enough, because he barely speaks about the game.

although, he fails to mention other points. Namely where was Matthew O Hanlon deployed for puck outs? And where did that drag Wally Walsh? Hanlon was on the Kilkenny 45 for a number of puck outs, so despite Kilkenny pushing up on Murphy, Wexford actually didnt have 7 in the back line. Watching the game, Hanlon was rarely in a conventional No 6 position, played closer to midfield. Now that in itself may have created more space behind for Aylward etc, but it seemed a plan for Wexford, whether to take Walsh out of his comfort zone or whether to push O Hanlon on I dont know, but either way, IMO, it was more significant than Kilkenny pushing up on Murphy.

I think he is narky that during the Halycon days of Kilkenny hurling their record over Tipp in All Ireland finals is W3 D1 L2.

He is also like a hormonal girl lamenting the fact that Kilkenny aren’t getting the credit they deserve and being coronated by the media. Kilkenny were always a functional ruthless winning machine but they weren’t easy on the eye. Dredging up things from the past that others did and attacking their credibility is a bit tenuous. I’m sure Gerlock or Cummins could retort with show me your medals PM?

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The game is not the real subject of the article , the 7 on 7 observation notwithstanding . I assume the real purpose is to return fire at those he thinks are dancing on Kilkenny’s grave , namely Cummins , Loughnane and I imagine Donal O’Grady (?).

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It’s a harmless enough article. A page filler if nothing else. I had to laugh when he mentioned the amount of wide/ missed chances Kilkenny had without taking Wexfords into account. I did the exact same myself after the Limerick Clare match only to realise that Clare had only one less wide then Limerick.

If that’s his intention then he has a point. Something similar was being touted after the 2010 final and we all know what has happened since

we should have won by more kelly needs to be on frees

Don’t forget Loughnane . Kk people also have a ferocious dislike of Donal O Grady .

"If "?? :smiley:

I’m not denying that at all Joe. I’m. Just saying that in most games that are won/lost by six or less, will inevitably lead to the losing supporters analysing their own wasted/missed opportunities while not doing the same with the winning side. Now I don’t remember the actual stats regarding Wexford wides/ missed opportunities in the Kilkenny game and I couldn’t be arsed googling them but I reckon they weren’t a million miles apart

It is rants and discussion thereof that sustains this place . There is a few days in this thread yet .

O ye are not bud limerick are a good team like

but so what? is it not enough that the Kilkenny team from 2005 - 2015 is arguably the best ever? And the empire falling now, of course people are going to comment on that?

It’s like as if he wants us to genuflect before the alter of Kilkenny hurling and marvel at how great they are. Fuck that, they were good, they are regressing, who gives a fuck what they did before. Should we build a shrine for them so PM is happy they get the credit they deserve. He almost feels like they are being underrated or disrespected by the tone in his piece. They won the most finals, the most all stars, the most POTY awards, they fucking cleaned up everywhere, but no, that doesnt seem to be enough to satisfy PM now who wants the adoration of all the media and supporters outside of Kilkenny to acknowledge what they did in years gone by.

I’m not advocating what he said and if that’s the impression I gave you, I apologise. I think he’s trying to imply that the likes of Loughnane predicted this every time they were beaten in the last seven years or so and once again are jumping on the bandwagon.

oh no I know that mike, it was more a dig at him than you.

but instead of him facing the realisation that this time it might be for real, he is harping back to the team of yesteryear. Those times when Loughnane may have been putting the boot in, you had top drawer players who were there to pull them back. PM would be served better to analyse why Kilkenny played clearly unfit players. Why they played players way out of position. Why they took off 2 players in the first half. Why they let a Wexford player being well marked in the first half move, but not get his marker to move with him and then ran riot in the second half. Why they persisted with watching Richie Hogan do fuck all in around their own half back line. Instead of writing about David Bowies album from 2016.

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Yea that’s fair enough

And in actual fact after reading the article again, it looks as if (even though he hasn’t mentioned it), he feels that the Kilkenny of 2000-2016 will never be viewed with the same admiration /affection of the great Kerry team of the 70s and up to the mid 80s

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Mr PM is simply railing against the common hurling theme that any team that loses a match is hopeless and any team that wins one is fantastic.

He’d be unused to it, of course, but should have ample opportunity to get more acquainted with it over the next few years.

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Spot on. I’ve had to read it a few times now in complete incredulity.
It’s a total car crash, a fucking patronising, bitchy cunt of an article.

Fuck lads but that’s some scutter.
He’s whinging about pundits not acknowledging a good victory and not once does he say how hard Wexford worked or how well they set up on the pitch.
His dig at Tipp ? Wtf was that about?
I’ve bookmarked that article and might get the chance to email him regarding same next September should Tipp win an all Ireland.

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His meltdown after the AI last year was epic. He spent the build up to the match quoting ramdom posts and wums from Premierview on Twitter.
He blocked a load of people and made his twitter private in the aftermath just because of a few light hearted jibes that were thrown his way.