No - but it’s not an immaterial factor either. Determining appropriate pay is always an inexact game and clearly market factors are one of the main influences.
My first post was comparing the inequality between teachers and gardai/nurses/other public service workers.
My last post still addresses that issue so your assertion about moving the goalposts is completely incorrect.
I have already put up the link to a nurses salary.
Here is the teaching one.
23k v 31k.
Like cost of living?
You really don’t think very far do you?
If the pay and conditions were very poor, then the people best suited to teaching would be likely not to apply.
That would be a shame wouldn’t it?
The pay and conditions are not poor though mate.
Didn’t 20,000 apply for 600 Gardai positions of late.
I merely want teachers brought in line with their public sector counterparts, you seem to feel that teachers should be entitled to:
a) 30k starting salary and 3 months holidays
b) A 40k pro rata starting salary
You feel that it is fair that they have this and gardai/nurses and other public sector workers don’t
Any woman planning on having a family and who doesn’t want to chase high pay in the business world would want their head examined not to be a teacher
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Maybe @glasagusban would like to clarify why teachers not on permanent contracts don’t get paid during the summer and permanent ones do? I thought teachers were only paid for 9 months work or is glas distorting facts to suit his agenda.
Teachers not on permanent contracts get screwed kid
Not a clarification, bizarre post for a guy who claims to be passionate about facts.
Teachers who commence employment during the period 1st September to the first working day of November and remain in employment on a fixed term contract for the full school year shall be paid until the 31st August. Prior to this whole time fixed-term teachers had to take up an appointment on or before the 1st working day in October in order to be paid until 31st August.
A fixed term teacher who commences employment after the first working day in November and continues in a fixed term capacity until 30th June will not get paid for the summer vacation unless s/he secures a further fixed term (temporary) teaching post or a permanent post from the first working day of the following school year (normally 1st September). The retrospective holiday pay entitlement will then be calculated as follows:
Didn’t you categorically state teachers DON’T get paid for the summer holidays?
That seems to directly contradict your assertions.
Care to clarify?
Ooooft.
Target has been Nembolised.
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It’s a stupid argument because teachers don’t get paid in a vacuum from some eternal fund of magic money. They are public servants whose remuneration is funded by the taxes of the private sector. Before benchmarking teachers were relatively low(er) paid but it was still an attractive career choice because of the other perks-job for life, lots of time off and an extremely generous pension. Then Bertie decided they should get the same salary levels as the private sector but keep all of the perks as well.
The “well why don’t you be a teacher so” is a shit argument because it tacitly admits that they are overcompensated for their role while sticking your head in the sand. It’s the “shur you’d do it yourself if you got away with it” fianna fail sleveen attitude of an Ireland I had hoped we were beginning to move away from.
Shame on you, mate. Shame on you.
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Well clearly cost of living is encompassed within market forces. If cost of living became unsustainably high, say for example in Dublin, then it would be noticed that applicants to open positions would diminish (in numbers and quality). At a distance there is little to suggest that this is currently the case.
Actually, seeing as the increases sought are fishing from the same limited pot of expenditures to be used on government services or taxations, the same cost of living rationale could be used as why this should be distributed amongst all taxpayers of similar income levels, not just one protected sector with disproportionate political leverage.
Only if you had full employment
They went nuts on the benchmarking alright.
Incorrect - we’re talking about university graduates here with a range of potential careers open to them and also the option to move abroad too. We rarely reach full employment but there are always upward and downward pressures on different jobs at different time.
Even at a simple level, you’d see a rush to get out of Dublin or the cities where it’s clearly more expensive to live if it was an unattractive job. Again, I just don’t see any evidence to that.
Interestingly, I heard a report the other day about the proposed Benchmarking Part 2 exercise. Govt sources are very clear that all the data and working will be published this time and the journalist was suggesting this could cause difficulties for some areas of the PS because ultimately it will become clear that pay pauses rather than pay increases are appropriate.
I think it’s kinda funny the amount of grief TD’s are getting at the moment about their proposed raise - sure it’s just the same as any civil servant at that grade is getting. Either it’s appropriate or it isn’t.