Treating Irish and non Irish unvaccinated the same way is now racist? Good ol TFK.
by any measure thereās no way in hell you could be ever considered as a reasonable person
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yeah thats grand, but thats 44% of Eastern Europeans here. Its not 44% of unvaccinated here. Iām not particularly bothered by the discussion and I really dont see why racism is being bandied about, but just didnt see the figures stacking up that Eastern Europeans make up the majority of the unvaxed here.
@Tank Iād imagine a lot of them are alright. And the whole furore over gyms could also be seen as a lot of Eastern Europeans being involved in that venn diagram also potentially.
@artfoley , not starting a row here, just wondering if it was the case that Eastern Europeans made up the majority here. I dont believe it does, it seems it makes up 25%. Iād still say that the majority of unvaxed here are Irish. Thats based on no data other than the article saying 25% are of EE ethnicity.
Falsely claiming the vast bulk of the unvaccinated in Ireland are eastern European, and refusing to withdraw that false claim even when it is demonstrated by multiple posters to be completely false, is racist.
To follow up, @artfoley 's initial point was that Fintan OāToole had grouped the unvaxxed into 3 groups, but that the Eastern Europeans, who made up a very large percentage of the unvaxxed, donāt seem to fall easily into any of Fintanās 3 categories.
Whilst Art made an error in classing Eastern Europeanās as 50% of the unvaxxed instead of a more accurate figure of about 25%, I think that 25% is still a very substantial percentage, significant enough to render Fintanās 3 categories incorrect, IF THE EASTERN EUROPEANS DONāT FIT INTO ANY OF THE 3 CATEGORIES.
However - from my experience of the unvaxx Eastern Europeans, most of them could be classed as paranoiacs, which were one of Fintanās 3 groups. The fact that there might be historical reasons to make them paranoid doesnāt change this for me.
These paranoiacs are probably the hardest of Fintanās 3 groups to reach / convince.
Edit - in either case there was nothing racist / xenophobic about Artās comment.
Is The Doxxer a reasonable person?
- Yes (Trying to out real life identities of anonymous people off the internet is reasonable)
- No (Heās deranged)
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Where you see paranoics. I see the likes of you as an awful gullible fool.
Iām more likely right than you.
Iād also like to see stats on proportion of unvaccinated who are pregnant women. I think a pregnant woman who locks herself away and refuses a vaccine does not fit into the three groups either and itās not an unreasonable position to adopt given recent history and the unknowns about risks of vaccination in terms of miscarriage etc.
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Iām not convinced by that. The article said that a tiny majority of non-vaxxed in ICU are foreign born. That would suggest to me that most unvaccinated adults living in Ireland are foreign-born.
I obviously donāt consider anything racist / xenophobic about saying this or else I just wouldnāt say it. Rather, it is important information for deciding what strategies would be most effective in targeting / convincing the unvaxxed.
Like, for example, with this info maybe covid passes for gyms become far more significant. Maybe this helps us understand that whole controversy better.
Theyāre the only unvaxxed that I feel sorry for, along with people who just canāt get vaxxed.
I think itās an irrational fear but Iām sympathetic that pregnant women have lots of irrational fears.
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yeah you could be right. But I suppose Iām just basing it on the likes of here and other online places where the majority of anti vax people are younger and not in a position where they are likely to be in ICU. So whilst the vast majority of elderly Irish people are vaxxed, having the smaller percentage of foreigners unvaxxed could distort the figure some what. Again, based on nothing really.
@TheUlteriorMotive makes a good point on pregnant women also. The absolute clusterfuck of info given out early on has correctly put up a fear in pregnant women of getting the vaccine, when it seems now that covid is a far greater danger when pregnant.
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The words you are looking for are disinformation and lies.
Lies like those spread by Anne McCloskey.
Which amounts to culpable homicide.
Glad to hear your folks were ok
One question - had either any underlying condition ???
actually, hes referring to the mixed and changed messaging from NIAC
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The HSE were mostly at fault over this. Their communication and guides for pregnant women was highlighted by many as being confusing and not clear. And this, in my opinion, has had a lasting affect on why pregnant women are still hesitant, moreso than many other sectors of society.
You can criticise the HSE for not being clear enough. No quarter should ever be given to anti-science fucknuttery. āGenuine fearsā should be categorically stated for what they are - bullshit.
Anne McCloskey and others who have spread disinformation with the aim of stopping people being vaccinated - and they are very influential - should be in prison.
Itās not an unreasonable position for fit and healthy people to reject the vaccine either, particularly when the vaccine is shown to be pretty shit re transmission?
No, itās not. People could just respect that view of others. My stance is more a contrarian one, I donāt need the vaccine but Iām emboldened not to get it because of some of the disgraceful conduct and misinformation the vaccine zealots have held makes me dig in deeper.
Iām not an anti-vaxxer, Iāve never told anyone not to get it, I respect peopleās wishes but I do have a problem with those who try to misrepresent my views because they differ from their own.
The vaccine zealots mentallers are every bit as dangerous as the anti-vax 5G nuts.
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Is it fair to equivocate Luke OāNeill to Anne McCloskey given OāNeill has said vaccines are 100% safe and people have lost their lives or had severe reactions to the vaccine?
Or are the vaccine zealots so extreme in their views they only look at Covid and vaccines with fanatical eyes?
No, it is not
Luke OāNeill did advise people to not wear masks though. Then some of us had to board planes full of people coming from COVID hot-spots with no masks or PPE whatsoever