He invented her I think⌠Shed know sheâs high risk so wouldnât dream of sitting indoors
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We are where we are. I could see where the process was going a long time ago. I believe âvaccine passportsâ are acceptable in the current context. What is the alternative?
You are on record as a supporter of the GBD. To me, that factor robs most of what you have to say of credibility. You believe it was somehow possible to avoid restrictions almost entirely and continue with normal economic life. You hold it was unfair to ask supermarket workers to operate because they were accepting more risk than the teacher or the engineer or the candlestick maker who could work from home. I never agreed for a moment with the black and white all or nothing GBD position. But I note that a vaccination passport asks everyone to accept risk â and the risk is minimal, according to nearly all reputable research â in equal terms. So vaccine passports are actually in tune, funnily enough, with the GBD.
I was walking home at teatime on Tuesday evening. My favourite pub in Ireland had reopened the day before. So I said I would I go in and see how they were and have a couple of pints before dinner. But I had forgotten my vaccination slip, because of being used to drinking outdoors in a beer garden. So when I was asked for the slip I had to admit I had left it at home and therefore could not come in.
I was not one bit put out. I simply went home and had dinner and came back in later and had a couple of pints, after showing my slip. The idea that not getting in there at teatime was some great infringement of my liberty seems to me laughable.
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What part of the gibe about âbedwettersâ do you not get?
Look, you are a clown. Enough said.
As what? A means to get more people vaccinated or prevention?
FYI the CDCâs new masking rules have led to Broadway mandating that fully vaccinated patrons wear masks, because it is stated that fully vaccinated persons spread the virus âas muchâ according to Fauci. In Irish terms, vaccine passports are only required in a couple of settings whilst many indoor activities do not have them. Gyms have been shown to be super spreader locations, and are disproportionately attended by younger persons, yet no vaccine passport required.
Any claims it would slowdown Covid are spurious. It has been quite clearly an attempt at getting vaccine take up higher in western countries. In Irish terms, I really donât think we needed it.
On balance, I accepted VPs in a couple of circumstances;
a) like Denmark did, as a means of early reopening of the economy whilst at risk persons were still being vaccinated
b) where you have genuine low level of take up, like a Bulgaria
B) is what we have done in effect and B is ethically questionable, thereâs no doubt about it. Aside from the logistics of it, I find the gaslighting by Martin on this to be unbelievable.
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Roll the sleeve up, put the needle in the back of the arm and no more about it ⌠thereâs no sympathy in this vaccine game for anybody.
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You seem absolutely desperate to bring this back to your Gurdian talking points on the GBD. This is what was said to you bringing it up to me before, do not lie
Letâs keep to what this is about. Pretending that these arenât a big departure for western societies and that the way theyâve been brought in was on the back of good debate is nonsense. We had months and months to properly debate them, you give conspiracy theorists oxygen when you say that you wonât bring them in but then ram them through at the last minute.
I think thatâs mostly nonsense and that delta did in fact pose a very real risk in July and we were right to respond somehow.
I donât agree with how we did respond. But if you are telling me the reason for the introduction of the measure was not delta, it was something else, then youâre talking complete nonsense.
The Galway lads still donât understand this. Maybe they never will.
To what? Circumstances did not change enough to warrant complete about turns in how you viewed the concept of vaccine passports.
It is a blatant attempt at increasing vaccine levels. If there was genuine concern at Delta overrunning hospitals weâd have been in another lockdown.
So you admit that you just made that up to fit your absolutist infantile outlook on life. Good. Youâre making progress.
You big kango head.
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Lockdown or nothing 
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Well hang on, Iâve been strongly OIUTF throughout but dont we OIUTFers want old and vulnerable people to cocoon themselves for as long as it takes while while rest of us carry on with normal life? Maybe even longer than 9 months?
Iâve heard both arguments very clearly. The least unfair solution would be an Italian-style âvaccine passport / negative testâ system.
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You seem absolutely desperate to bring this back to your Gurdian talking points on the GBD. This is what was said to you bringing it up to me before, do not lie
Letâs keep to what this is about. Pretending that these arenât a big departure for western societies and that the way theyâve been brought in was on the back of good debate is nonsense. We had months and months to properly debate them, you give conspiracy theorists oxygen when you say that you wonât bring them in but then ram them through at the last minute.
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Yes, I read The Guardian every day. So what? It is an excellent paper. I also read a lot of other newsprint. I will pass over the childish gibe, as if reading The Guardian defined my views. It does not, which is what makes people like you uncomfortable. I do not fit in any neat little ârightâ or âleftâ box. I like to think for myself.
You seem extraordinarily keen to keep asking me questions. Why, I do not understand.
I will confine myself to noting that the idea of vaccine passports as in tune with a central plank of the GBD makes you uneasy. If people think about matters a little deeper, without being in hock to right wing shibboleths, many things become apparent. Of course, the GBD is a crock of right wing shite, the usual stuff from the usual suspects. And the fact that sundry âlibertariansâ are now terribly put out about vaccine âriskâ and vaccine âcurtailment of freedomâ makes me coldly laugh. The ultimate freedom is not to become seriously ill or die.
Vaccine passports are here to stay for the moment. What would answer your criterion (âon the back of good debateâ) is hard to say, because you are rigidly anti anything that derives from state action and so cannot think properly about such issues.
Given time, life will return to something approaching normality. But there are going to be a lot of difficult cases around employment.
I donât follow you?
In terms of how we responded, that is generally it. The measure introduced was inconsistent across sectors. Gyms have been super spreader locations, why not for them too? If Delta really changed things, why not there?
Itâs a blatant attempt at increasing take up. In the U.K., Rabb has admitted it. Macron has admitted as such. Tbh I donât have a problem with people being honest about that, but it should been upfront.
Seems coercive to me
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What is the TFK line about ârent freeââŚ
If this site is still here in ten yearsâ time, that kango line is one the few that will endure. Really got under OIUTF skin, so it did, so it did,âŚ
Nonsense. Many of our measures have been inconsistent, nonsensical, or pointless, some of them even racist.
I donât agree with the response. But I accept the reason for the response was in fact the threat posed by Delta. Thatâs just apparent.
Your reasoning that the response should have been lockdown or nothing is stupid and nothing further needs to be said about it.
Youâre going off here and missing the point.
To clarify;
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my post above says that I didnât agree with their strategy overall
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Iâve said on balance that Iâd have taken VPs a few months ago like they had in Denmark. If take up had been low in Ireland, Iâd have taken the civil liberties hit
My issue is with how theyâve been brought in, administered and also how disagreements with them are met by the likes of yourself. @Horseboxâs point was very valid.
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Some right spineless Iâm all right Jack types on this thread. The same cunts would have turned away when the Jews were being loaded on the trains.
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No, it was not. He was just using the emotive topic of a pregnant woman â in vulgar fashion, to my eye â for making a typically shallow point.
Whether (pregnant) unvaccinated women can eat inside a pub is not one of the many terribly difficult issues facing the country. To pretend this issue is central can only seem risible to any sensible person.
I like my freedom in concrete terms. And I prefer to be in a pub where everyone else there is vaccinated. I believe the great majority of people in Ireland feel the same way. Why? Because they are, largely, sensible and pragmatic and not in hock to right wing shite.
If there was a Venn diagram of odious people, it would contain, for starters, Toby Young, Laurence Fox, Brendan OâNeill, Claire Fox, Darren Grimes, Dolores Cahill, Gemma OâDoherty and John Waters. I mean, there is also a question of taste. Who in their right mind would want to be on the same side of any argument those deplorables would makeâŚ