Pubs opening

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Outdoor drinking legislation

There have been issues in recent times regarding the legality of the sale of alcohol in outdoor areas. The law may provide for consumption but not sale. The sale must take place on the premises but, at present, people are not allowed on the premises. GardaĂ­ in some areas have been strong in pointing out that current practices do not comply with liquor licensing laws.

Government initially moved to a situation where the GardaĂ­ were urged to exercise discretion. That did not have the desired effect. Legislation has now been introduced in the Dail and hopefully will be fully enacted over coming days.

This legislation (Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2021) allows for a number of items as follows:

Temporary licensing of outdoor seating area

When the Bill becomes law an outdoor seating area will be deemed, on a temporary basis, to be part of the licensed premises for the sale of alcohol. That will clear that issue up.

Use of additional private land

In many cases the licensed area extends beyond the premises and includes yards etc. In other cases,it is merely the premises itself. It depends on what is on the licensing map and the relevant red line. There is a provision in this Bill to give use to more private land for seating and the consumption of alcohol.

The conditions are set out below -

(b) on private land abutting the premises where—

(i) the land is owned, or occupied by way of a lease or licence, by the licensee

of the premises,

(ii) a licence is not in force, or a certificate of registration under the Act of 1904 is not applicable and in force, in respect of the area,

(iii) the number of seated patrons who can be accommodated in the area does not exceed the number of patrons who may be accommodated in the licensed

premises,

(iv) the area contains sufficient seating to accommodate the number of seated

patrons referred to in subparagraph (iii),

(v) the area does not contain any counter or barrier across which intoxicating

liquor can be served to the public, and

(vi) the sale or supply of intoxicating liquor by the licensee to patrons in the area is an ancillary part of the normal business carried on that premises;

“private land” means land other than State land (within the meaning of the State Property Act 1954);

This effectively allows you to use additional space as set out above.

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Here is the latest news and updates from VFI head office:

Meeting with Government

A further meeting took place today with senior government officials about conditions for re-opening indoor drinking and dining. The six options as outlined earlier in the week were still on the table. However, in essence, there are two that remain in play– either stay closed until late September / October or find a way to get open earlier. The option getting most traction is allowing those who are vaccinated or recovered entry to the premises.

Right now a majority of members are open but restricted in what they can do due to the outdoor restriction. That is before consideration is given to weather conditions. There is a further number that want to open but have no outdoor space. Finally, there is a number that are opposed to the type of option on offer.

There has been some commentary that we are the only ones in Europe thinking about such a regime. Not so. There are quite a few countries using a vaccination pass or a variation on it. Some have been doing so for months now.

When we met government officials on Monday we spelt out our objections to, and concerns with, the proposal around vaccination passes etc from legal and operational perspectives.

As anticipated by us, primary legislation is required to ensure that no member is open to being sued on the basis of discrimination, equality or breach of GDPR. Certain regulations will also need to be updated and that can be done in parallel. We pointed this out to government a week ago and it is frustrating that it is only being acted on now.

While the protocols are not finalised, it is likely the verification process will be part of the contact tracing protocol where a box will be ticked to indicate a vaccine pass has been offered. For regulars it is unlikely there will be a need for confirmation of the pass on every occasion.

Responsibility for ensuring compliance is likely to rest primarily with the HAS, EHOs or Failte Ireland inspectors. The GardaĂ­ may have an input but it is likely to be peripheral. Again, final details to be worked out.

If they run with this, when will it happen? We are still sticking with a date of July 19th. The requirement for primary legislation could create challenges for this date but that is a decision for government next Tuesday.

We have been pushing for changes to the operational guidelines, especially the use of the bar counter. Right now, there is no movement from Government on this but we intend to keep it on the agenda as we feel there is scope for such a change.

The officials we met today are not in any way involved in supports of any kind.

In summary, it is still a work in progress. The options as outlined at the beginning are to get open, however cumbersome it might be, or stay closed until September / October when there will be other added challenges like schools and universities returning, new variants, and any other excuse certain quangos might try to think up to keep the sector closed.

1 Like
5791

The only error in there is calling nphet a quango rather than the de facto government

5792

What’s your thoughts on that. The last line is the nub of the issue.

5793

The whole thing makes grim reading. The VFI are a fairly toothless outfit but they haven’t a load of options. The country is fucked.
We’ll hear Martin shiteing on about “A meaningful Christmas” yet….

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5794

@Horsebox said a number of months ago that there is a real possibility that they would bring in a vaccine passport for people to do normal things in this country and he was lambasted by a certain poster here at the time and told to stop being hysterical. @Horsebox held his tongue at the time because he knew there was a very good chance that this would come to pass. Well now it looks like they will rush through emergency legislation to make this requirement of a vaccine passport to partake in Irish society a reality.

Today I can reveal that that poster was…Rebekah Vardy.

Only joking it was @glasagusban of course.

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5795

The pubs and restaurants don’t appear to be well served by their representatives.

5796

:clap: :clap:

You are correct. All the publicans of Ireland will be doing their level best to make this work because something is better than nothing. The issue of enforcement is crucial. An Garda Siochana have been doing an outstanding job in difficult circumstances so far it has to be said

5797

If the VFI just said “we’re all opening” they could do that.

5798

I’m shocked they never thought of that

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5799

I’m pretty hammered here pal, I can’t quite process online irony. What’s the story, are you lads all pushing them to just announce an opening? How reprepresentative is the VFI anyway? Is it a government body or what? Why can’t they grow a pair? Could @Lazarus run for president of it?

5800

Lets just leave it at that

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5801

The vfi need a big fucking carrot and a big fucking stick, that’s my drunken opinion. It’s like Ronald Reagan said, to get what you want you need to have nice polite manners and a loaded revolver. He didn’t actually say that, I just made it up, but he said something similar that I forget now.

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5802

Ooooh fucking Mr fuck

5803

@Lazarus is there a serious fear that some pubs are going to be fucked come winter (if they do get to open).

I.e. the pubs will open, supports will end, but they will be left without the buffer of the income they would have made during the summer?

5804

Is there a push to open up and the VFI backing publicans in the High Court?

5805

Alcohol is class, fuck NPHET

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5806

Why don’t they open up and ignore the vaccination policy? In rural pubs they won’t be asking for proof of vaccination anyway.

5807

That’s the plan, they just can’t come out and say it.

5808

Ah right, government don’t trust them.