1 You should not go back and the fact you are considering it is disturbing.
2 Brexit is a very complicated subject. Ultimately the EU is a failed project, but the UK are only half in anyway by maintaining their currency. There is no comparison with Ireland which needs the EU much more than the UK. On balance, in terms of trade, I don’t think it makes much difference. The UK is being systematically destroyed by immigration, 330,000 last year and continuing to rise. If I lived there I would vote to exit.
The UK has a lower percentage of immigrant population than Ireland. But you wouldn’t know it with all the hysteria from nutjobs over there. It’s the sort of hysteria that says migration is continuing to rise when it fell last quarter.
Comparisons to Ireland are nonsensical, ffs Ireland had literally zero immigration up to the arrival of the Celtic Tiger years, and immigrants were needed as the economy boomed. Ireland is still a decently growing economy and can still sustain positive net migration, as the country still has a relatively low population. The UK (England in reality) in comparison is one of the most densely populated countries in Europe, already at 65M and projected to grow to 75M in the next decade. Migration is generally healthy for economies, but when its gets out of balance as has been the case in the UK for decades it doesn’t benefit the existing population. Net migration in the UK was less than 50,000 in 1997, it was 330,000 in 2015. 76% of people in the UK want to see immigration reduced, are they all nutjobs?
What on earth are you talking about? The total immigrant population in Ireland is higher than the UK. Ergo, even though Ireland may have historically been lower than the UK, that has been rebalanced to such an extent that it is now higher in Ireland. So if it’s getting out if balance in the UK then it’s gotten more out of balance in Ireland. Which it hasn’t. One could argue that the UK should have a much have higher immigrant born population because of its colonial debt but it doesn’t.
Comparisons to Ireland are only nonsensical if they don’t suit you. You can come up with all sorts of spurious reasons to distort or deny the numbers but the UK is roughly on a par with the likes of Germany, France, Spain etc and lower than Ireland. They’re just making a bigger fuss about it.
Percentage of immigrant population is a meaningless statistic, I am talking about the impact of population growth in a country that can’t sustain it (unlike Ireland which is still a developing economy). A country could have 100% immigrants or 0% immigrants, and it has no relevance to the central issue that concerns 3/4 of the population in the UK, across all ethnicities. The central issue in the UK is that the fucking place is already overcrowded (twice that of Germany and over 3X that of France), large parts of it are either already or becoming shitholes, and adding a net of over 300,000 a year is going to continue that trend. Population growth in the UK is 500,000 a year, mostly driven by immigrants and children of recent immigrants, who the fuck is going to pay for all the infrastructure, schools, etc.in an economy that’s growing at 0.4% and slowing. The UK, or rather England, simply can’t sustain that level of population growth.
In a debate about volumes of immigration I would humbly suggest that the immigrant percentage of a population is a very meaningful statistic.
You’ve changed your tune from
“the UK is being systematically destroyed by immigration”
to saying
“a country could have 100% immigrants or 0% immigrants, and it has no relevance to the central issue… that the fucking place is already overcrowded.”
You were really worried about immigration there for the best part of an hour. It makes it rather difficult to engage in a debate when you change your mind so frequently.
the irony of a guy who fled the dole queues in Oireland and got a green card giving out about immigrants is mind boggling.
This guy is worse than the muldoon from Galway at the bogball game giving out about immigrants as he thinks he is an intellect
I would humbly suggest you are completely missing my point. There is no conflict between the two phrases you highlighted, one references net migration patterns, the other references the existing make up of the population. For now the third time, migration is generally a positive for economies, unless it is out of balance, and in the case of England specifically, leads to unsustainable population growth.
Comparisons to other countries are largely irrelevant, as every country is different and the original question relates to whether the UK should stay in the EU or leave. Germany needs positive net migration due to its demographics, the peripheral countries like Spain and Portugal certainly don’t as they can’t provide employment for their existing populations.
As an aside, unlike the UK, Ireland has had negative net migration since 2009. Immigration has dropped from a high of 150k pa in 2007 to about 60K, and emigration is running around 75k pa (source: European Migration Network). So, even though Ireland’s economy is growing at a faster clip than the UK, roughly 100k more people have left the country than entered it over the past 5 years.
There’s no contradiction in anything I’ve said, your English comprehension appears very basic if you think so.
The UK, and specifically England, has a problem with immigration. the leading contributor by far to unsustainable population growth. 76% of the UK population agree with me, and the latest polling out today shows a majority now favoring leaving the EU, specifically because of this issue. You can disagree if you wish, but explain why you disagree rather than constant irrelevancies about other countries, and trying to find inconsistencies where there are none.
Let me spell it out for you one last time. The UK’s economic model is unsustainable, outside of London there is zero or negative growth, and there are over 600,000 new immigrants entering the country annually with less than 300,000 leaving. Personally I couldn’t give a shit about the welfare of the UK, and England in particular, just pointing out the obvious reason why the great majority of people in the UK (those with a functioning brain) may see that as a problem.
The UK are obsessed with immigration. They have been for a long time. Their popular media talks about little else for much of the time.
Their obsession with immigration is inconsistent with the fact that they don’t have a higher percentage of immigrants in their country than most other western European countries. I completely accept the fact that you want to ignore that point, but ignoring it doesn’t make it go away.
So if we take your point that the UK has exceptional population growth, and we also take the facts which tell us that the UK doesn’t have exceptional numbers of immigrants, then we can reasonably conclude that the population growth is caused by other factors, namely:
changes in demographic profile
low emigration figures
It suits the short-sighted, blunt worldview to attribute all these problems to immigration. And yet we know that the UK doesn’t have exceptional immigration at all. What it does have is other demographic factors (that are ignored) and exceptional hysteria around this issue.
What does the percentage of immigrants in a country have to do with anything? You are obsessed with this statistic, as if there is some magic number of immigrants a country should have. Excluding a tiny population of native Americans, the US is essentially 100% immigrants. The US or indeed any country could have a range of immigration problems totally unrelated to the current percentage of immigrants, for example not attracting the kind of skilled workforce required in its economy, or not controlling the numbers of immigrants that contribute nothing to the economy or are a drain on the economy.
Changes in demographic profile aka as people on welfare having more babies that they expect others to raise
Not enough emigration aka all the rich and middle class should leave, facilitating the place turning into a complete shithole
This is almost as bad as your defense of one legged footballers, based on the fact Maradona had an exceptional left peg.
Saying the EU is a failed project is a silly and far too sweeping a statement.
There is clearly an issue with immigration though and it’s understandable that if you think that you might vote leave. Liberals are desperate to appear “right on” and brand anyone who questions the levels of migration as a racist. Britain signed up for it though so tough titties. They let far too many in from outside the EU over the years which they shouldn’t have. It’s a pity Britain doesn’t assert itself more in Europe and stop Merkel from ruining the continent. Allowing the Turks roam around Europe visa free.
As an aside, the Brits and us Irish should take foreign languages far more seriously so we can take full advantage of the single market.
[quote=“anon7035031, post:18, topic:22508”]
What does the percentage of immigrants in a country have to do with anything? You are obsessed with this statistic, as if there is some magic number of immigrants a country should have. Excluding a tiny population of native Americans, the US is essentially 100% immigrants. The US or indeed any country could have a range of immigration problems totally unrelated to the current percentage of immigrants, for example not attracting the kind of skilled workforce required in its economy, or not controlling the numbers of immigrants that contribute nothing to the economy or are a drain on the economy.[/quote]
This is a debate about the number of immigrants. Numbers of immigrants are entirely relevant. Numbers of immigrants as a percentage of overall population size is entirely relevant. It’s abundantly clear that the number doesn’t suit your argument but arguing it’s irrelevant is moronic.
You have argued that there is too much immigration. You didn’t argue that they are not skilled, you didn’t argue that they are not contributing to the economy - you argued that there are too many going to the UK.
First you argued there was too many, then you said the number doesn’t matter, it’s the total population that matters. Now it’s about the skills of the migrants. You’re very fluid in your views.
I’m not suggesting there is a right number or a wrong number. I am explaining to an apparent imbecile that the UK doesn’t take in a disproportionate number of immigrants, but it does react disproportionately to the concept.
[quote=“anon7035031, post:18, topic:22508”]
Changes in demographic profile aka as people on welfare having more babies that they expect others to raise [/quote]
Boring response.
Not enough emigration aka all the rich and middle class should leave, facilitating the place turning into a complete shithole [/quote]
Boring response.
aka as people on welfare having more babies that they expect others to raise